Why haven't police charged the man suspected of breaking my window with burglary?

Mark Wild inside his flat where the window was smashed

Mark Wild inside his flat where the window was smashed

First published in News
Last updated

A BURGLARY victim whose front window was smashed has condemned the police’s decision to arrest a suspect on suspicion of criminal damage.

Crooks targeted a groundfloor flat twice in 24 hours.

During the second break-in attempt, a man, 22, was arrested.

The decision to question him on suspicion of criminal damage and not a more serious charge, such as attempted burglary, has angered victim Mark Wild.

Mr Wild, 44, of Winnock Road, Colchester, said: “I know what he was trying to do, I was there. I opened the curtains and there he was, attempting to get in. He had his elbow in the frame.

“I’m 100 per cent sure he was trying to get into my flat – he was trying to burgle me.

“It was between 2am and 3am, so I don’t see what else he would be trying to do. It happened the night before and it was going to happen again.”

Mr Wild has contacted Essex Police to seek clarification.

An Essex Police spokesman said officers were satisfied the criminal damage accusation was sufficient.

He said: “Burglary is a big priority for us and if we thought it was an attempted burglary in this case, we would have acted along those lines.”

Raiders initially broke into the Colchester Borough Homes tenant’s flat by levering open the front window at about 2am on Tuesday morning.

About 100 CDs, some personal possessions and a cooked chicken were taken.

Then, during the early hours of yesterday morning, Mr Wild woke up to noise at the same front window.

When he went to find out what was going on, he found the window had been smashed in and a man was trying to flee. A police spokesman said: “Police were contacted shortly before 2.30am on Wednesday following reports a man had broken a window of a flat in Winnock Road.

“Officers arrived and arrested a man, 22, of no fixed address.”

  •  Liam Dunne has been charged with causing criminal damage. The 22-year-old theatre employee, of School Road, Great Horkesley, has been released on police bail.

Comments (18)

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6:52am Fri 10 Jan 14

Say It As It Is OK? says...

Quote "POLICE routinely manipulate crime figures to meet performance targets, serving and former officers told a committee of MPs".

But not in this case. The evidence suggests this guy was at the property to paint the window frame and the glass got broken, by sheer accident!
Quote "POLICE routinely manipulate crime figures to meet performance targets, serving and former officers told a committee of MPs". But not in this case. The evidence suggests this guy was at the property to paint the window frame and the glass got broken, by sheer accident! Say It As It Is OK?
  • Score: 11

7:50am Fri 10 Jan 14

hughie-s says...

Say It As It Is OK? wrote:
Quote "POLICE routinely manipulate crime figures to meet performance targets, serving and former officers told a committee of MPs".

But not in this case. The evidence suggests this guy was at the property to paint the window frame and the glass got broken, by sheer accident!
I hope he didn't cut himself and have to take time off work otherwise he will want compensation.
[quote][p][bold]Say It As It Is OK?[/bold] wrote: Quote "POLICE routinely manipulate crime figures to meet performance targets, serving and former officers told a committee of MPs". But not in this case. The evidence suggests this guy was at the property to paint the window frame and the glass got broken, by sheer accident![/p][/quote]I hope he didn't cut himself and have to take time off work otherwise he will want compensation. hughie-s
  • Score: 9

9:01am Fri 10 Jan 14

blockpaver says...

Pretty grim for the victim who has all our sympathies, no joke living under these conditions. However knowing why the intruder was there and proving intent I’m sure are two separate things, much better, I would have thought, to have a conviction for a provable offence rather than an acquittal for a possible one.
Pretty grim for the victim who has all our sympathies, no joke living under these conditions. However knowing why the intruder was there and proving intent I’m sure are two separate things, much better, I would have thought, to have a conviction for a provable offence rather than an acquittal for a possible one. blockpaver
  • Score: 8

10:11am Fri 10 Jan 14

Jack222 says...

Police seem right to me - he certainly caused criminal damage. To prove 'intent' for attempted burglary is impossible. And would waste a lot of money.
Police seem right to me - he certainly caused criminal damage. To prove 'intent' for attempted burglary is impossible. And would waste a lot of money. Jack222
  • Score: 1

10:29am Fri 10 Jan 14

the mighty wah says...

I've tasted Mr Wilds cooking and the best punishment would have been for the guilty party to eat the chicken.
I've tasted Mr Wilds cooking and the best punishment would have been for the guilty party to eat the chicken. the mighty wah
  • Score: 5

10:29am Fri 10 Jan 14

No! I am Spartacus says...

Is the Gazette becoming a tabloid nonsense news receptacle? Not only is it purposely angling the story as a stab at Colchester police, but then also poisons the waters with a thinly veiled accusation against local police in this instance with a snippet from the commons public administration committee.
- Bernard Jenkin was the chairman of that committee, is the Gazette doing his bidding now?

Lets look at the facts, bare as they are in this report. A window was broken. Unless the burglar was found in the house, how could it result in a successful conviction? 'He had his elbow in the frame' is a pretty easy thing to defend against- yes, I know he was probably trying to break in, but it is about what can be proven, not what is likely and assumed.

Does anyone doubt there are some bad police officers? Probably not, we rely on the police to protect us all so it is newsworthy when this responsibility is failed. Each working environment has amoebas working in them however, and this level of sensationalist story writing with minimal regard for associated facts is certainly a contender in the area of journalism.
Is the Gazette becoming a tabloid nonsense news receptacle? Not only is it purposely angling the story as a stab at Colchester police, but then also poisons the waters with a thinly veiled accusation against local police in this instance with a snippet from the commons public administration committee. - Bernard Jenkin was the chairman of that committee, is the Gazette doing his bidding now? Lets look at the facts, bare as they are in this report. A window was broken. Unless the burglar was found in the house, how could it result in a successful conviction? 'He had his elbow in the frame' is a pretty easy thing to defend against- yes, I know he was probably trying to break in, but it is about what can be proven, not what is likely and assumed. Does anyone doubt there are some bad police officers? Probably not, we rely on the police to protect us all so it is newsworthy when this responsibility is failed. Each working environment has amoebas working in them however, and this level of sensationalist story writing with minimal regard for associated facts is certainly a contender in the area of journalism. No! I am Spartacus
  • Score: 1

11:40am Fri 10 Jan 14

All_talk_no_action says...

“Burglary is a big priority for us"
Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.
“Burglary is a big priority for us" Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes. All_talk_no_action
  • Score: 1

12:44pm Fri 10 Jan 14

wormshero says...

All_talk_no_action wrote:
“Burglary is a big priority for us"
Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.
Ah yes, let's follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment, they are definitely a country we should aspire to follow...
[quote][p][bold]All_talk_no_action[/bold] wrote: “Burglary is a big priority for us" Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.[/p][/quote]Ah yes, let's follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment, they are definitely a country we should aspire to follow... wormshero
  • Score: -1

2:15pm Fri 10 Jan 14

All_talk_no_action says...

wormshero wrote:
All_talk_no_action wrote:
“Burglary is a big priority for us"
Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.
Ah yes, let's follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment, they are definitely a country we should aspire to follow...
Remember that when you or a family member gets burgled
[quote][p][bold]wormshero[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]All_talk_no_action[/bold] wrote: “Burglary is a big priority for us" Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.[/p][/quote]Ah yes, let's follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment, they are definitely a country we should aspire to follow...[/p][/quote]Remember that when you or a family member gets burgled All_talk_no_action
  • Score: 3

2:19pm Fri 10 Jan 14

All_talk_no_action says...

wormshero wrote:
All_talk_no_action wrote:
“Burglary is a big priority for us"
Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.
Ah yes, let's follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment, they are definitely a country we should aspire to follow...
And who said we have to follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment? You did..
[quote][p][bold]wormshero[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]All_talk_no_action[/bold] wrote: “Burglary is a big priority for us" Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.[/p][/quote]Ah yes, let's follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment, they are definitely a country we should aspire to follow...[/p][/quote]And who said we have to follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment? You did.. All_talk_no_action
  • Score: -6

2:25pm Fri 10 Jan 14

wormshero says...

All_talk_no_action wrote:
wormshero wrote:
All_talk_no_action wrote:
“Burglary is a big priority for us"
Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.
Ah yes, let's follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment, they are definitely a country we should aspire to follow...
Remember that when you or a family member gets burgled
I've had my house broken into before, however I'm neither sick or insane so I didn't wish the pair of people who got caught in the act would have their hands cut off. In that particular case they were addicts stealing to buy a fix, but I think all people should be given a chance to be rehabilitated.
[quote][p][bold]All_talk_no_action[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wormshero[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]All_talk_no_action[/bold] wrote: “Burglary is a big priority for us" Cut their hands off. It's a terrible crime leaving the victims feeling vulnerable in there own homes.[/p][/quote]Ah yes, let's follow Saudi Arabia's system of punishment, they are definitely a country we should aspire to follow...[/p][/quote]Remember that when you or a family member gets burgled[/p][/quote]I've had my house broken into before, however I'm neither sick or insane so I didn't wish the pair of people who got caught in the act would have their hands cut off. In that particular case they were addicts stealing to buy a fix, but I think all people should be given a chance to be rehabilitated. wormshero
  • Score: -4

4:41pm Fri 10 Jan 14

angryman!!! says...

Your not a hero your a saint worm. Rehabilitation is of course the answer I'm sure they didn't go in to commit more crimes and are now leading lights of the community.
Punishment needs to be a lot harder to stop the likes of Liam dunne, he will get a slap on the wrist, and go on to "smash a lot more windows"
Your not a hero your a saint worm. Rehabilitation is of course the answer I'm sure they didn't go in to commit more crimes and are now leading lights of the community. Punishment needs to be a lot harder to stop the likes of Liam dunne, he will get a slap on the wrist, and go on to "smash a lot more windows" angryman!!!
  • Score: 2

4:52pm Fri 10 Jan 14

wormshero says...

angryman!!! wrote:
Your not a hero your a saint worm. Rehabilitation is of course the answer I'm sure they didn't go in to commit more crimes and are now leading lights of the community.
Punishment needs to be a lot harder to stop the likes of Liam dunne, he will get a slap on the wrist, and go on to "smash a lot more windows"
Sure, not everyone gets rehabilitated successfully, but the majority (admittedly it's close) of people who go into prison don't reoffend and are successfully rehabilitated. And that's not taking into account that a lot of thefts are to fund addiction for which there are many successful programs. I'm not saying that it should be a slap on the wrist; I think some time inside, or rehab in the case of addiction, should be completed or, at the very minimum, community service should be enforced, but I do think that anyone who suggests that burglary, and other relatively small crimes, should be dealt with by removing the perpetrator's hands is a sick individual.
[quote][p][bold]angryman!!![/bold] wrote: Your not a hero your a saint worm. Rehabilitation is of course the answer I'm sure they didn't go in to commit more crimes and are now leading lights of the community. Punishment needs to be a lot harder to stop the likes of Liam dunne, he will get a slap on the wrist, and go on to "smash a lot more windows"[/p][/quote]Sure, not everyone gets rehabilitated successfully, but the majority (admittedly it's close) of people who go into prison don't reoffend and are successfully rehabilitated. And that's not taking into account that a lot of thefts are to fund addiction for which there are many successful programs. I'm not saying that it should be a slap on the wrist; I think some time inside, or rehab in the case of addiction, should be completed or, at the very minimum, community service should be enforced, but I do think that anyone who suggests that burglary, and other relatively small crimes, should be dealt with by removing the perpetrator's hands is a sick individual. wormshero
  • Score: -4

8:26pm Sat 11 Jan 14

A Very Private Gentleman says...

No! I am Spartacus wrote:
Is the Gazette becoming a tabloid nonsense news receptacle? Not only is it purposely angling the story as a stab at Colchester police, but then also poisons the waters with a thinly veiled accusation against local police in this instance with a snippet from the commons public administration committee.
- Bernard Jenkin was the chairman of that committee, is the Gazette doing his bidding now?

Lets look at the facts, bare as they are in this report. A window was broken. Unless the burglar was found in the house, how could it result in a successful conviction? 'He had his elbow in the frame' is a pretty easy thing to defend against- yes, I know he was probably trying to break in, but it is about what can be proven, not what is likely and assumed.

Does anyone doubt there are some bad police officers? Probably not, we rely on the police to protect us all so it is newsworthy when this responsibility is failed. Each working environment has amoebas working in them however, and this level of sensationalist story writing with minimal regard for associated facts is certainly a contender in the area of journalism.
The problem we have here is that there is a taste and flavour or a return of Police work we had around 1995 to 2004:
I don't know who was the Chief Constable then but there was a dire mentality around here at that moment in time:
My nephew was attacked in a morbid way last year while he was in education he has been very ill for some months.
The Police did nothing about it stating there is not enough evidence to issue warrants.
The young chap also had 3/4 of his ear severed from his head while at school back in 2007 They did next to nothing to catch one of the two suspects in the frame for the assault.
If kavanagh & Alston continue in this way then it is time for them to leave and leave quickly please.
Complaint letters to kavanagh gleans no reply from their office they just pass the buck on to an Inspectorate officer, at local level you just about a get a call now.
Home visits are virtually out of the window by Professional Standards.
Both Jenkin, Patel and Sir Russell need to stamp on this roughshod, ramshackle service ASAP it is getting grossly out of hand.
The major problem is that the service is the victim of the ridiculous recruiting system that was going on in the mid 80's:

I will not go into it too much, but it made the carry on movies look tame:

Now most of those Clouseau's have retired thank G*D, the Job is left with bad blood trained by a similar bad attitude of mentality:
There are some good bods in the job, however they are in the minority, the ones that are due for their Two Thirds/ in 3 to 4 years time are what's known as keeping their heads, down as some of my old mates put it!
A lot of the old boys have lost interest, moral in some areas and aspects of the job is low:
The money and prospects is OK its not great, they were hoping for a pay rise of dramatic odds when the tories got in, but it never happened.
Thatcher only did it because she wanted to bust the miners apart and dreams of it happening again under Cammeroon, was just a distant fantasy on a horizon, living in a mirage.
You will never get the dedicated bobby you had in days of old because our young do not think or act that way anymore, whether they are Policeman or not.
If the forces recruiting services think any different then they are clearly misguided.
The Education entrants test and the PT test have all been relinquished since H.O.E.Ts They do not even train them away from home anymore at Ashford or Eynsham Hall (That is a luxury hotel and retreat now for the rich who want to get away from crime):
I am afraid its 9 to 5 monday to friday training at Chelmsford, to go hand in hand with a 9 to 5 Police Service, that is giving us all a pick and mix piece meal service costing over £1 Billion a year:
The only time anyone will get justice these days is when the case is handed to them on a plate, or the evidence is staring them full proof in the face.
The general public end up doing most of the donkey work for them, the Police tend to piece it all together its a numbers game today I am afraid and the dice roll is on the side of the criminals.
We are now entering a very dangerous level of society whereby, the rights of those who wish to remain silent and in cognito have become stronger than the victims who suffer at their hands.
Michal Hecht messed about with the judges rules and Moriartys law, changing it into the P.A.C.E act to counter anti terrorism issues, but this did not do much for rank and file bog standard police work in the streets.
The whole thing is a mess and successive Chief's have done nothing more than plaster over cracks.
The problem now is plaster is becoming very expensive and the system is running out of that substance too.
PLEASE EITHER DO THE JOB OR GET OUT!
[quote][p][bold]No! I am Spartacus[/bold] wrote: Is the Gazette becoming a tabloid nonsense news receptacle? Not only is it purposely angling the story as a stab at Colchester police, but then also poisons the waters with a thinly veiled accusation against local police in this instance with a snippet from the commons public administration committee. - Bernard Jenkin was the chairman of that committee, is the Gazette doing his bidding now? Lets look at the facts, bare as they are in this report. A window was broken. Unless the burglar was found in the house, how could it result in a successful conviction? 'He had his elbow in the frame' is a pretty easy thing to defend against- yes, I know he was probably trying to break in, but it is about what can be proven, not what is likely and assumed. Does anyone doubt there are some bad police officers? Probably not, we rely on the police to protect us all so it is newsworthy when this responsibility is failed. Each working environment has amoebas working in them however, and this level of sensationalist story writing with minimal regard for associated facts is certainly a contender in the area of journalism.[/p][/quote]The problem we have here is that there is a taste and flavour or a return of Police work we had around 1995 to 2004: I don't know who was the Chief Constable then but there was a dire mentality around here at that moment in time: My nephew was attacked in a morbid way last year while he was in education he has been very ill for some months. The Police did nothing about it stating there is not enough evidence to issue warrants. The young chap also had 3/4 of his ear severed from his head while at school back in 2007 They did next to nothing to catch one of the two suspects in the frame for the assault. If kavanagh & Alston continue in this way then it is time for them to leave and leave quickly please. Complaint letters to kavanagh gleans no reply from their office they just pass the buck on to an Inspectorate officer, at local level you just about a get a call now. Home visits are virtually out of the window by Professional Standards. Both Jenkin, Patel and Sir Russell need to stamp on this roughshod, ramshackle service ASAP it is getting grossly out of hand. The major problem is that the service is the victim of the ridiculous recruiting system that was going on in the mid 80's: I will not go into it too much, but it made the carry on movies look tame: Now most of those Clouseau's have retired thank G*D, the Job is left with bad blood trained by a similar bad attitude of mentality: There are some good bods in the job, however they are in the minority, the ones that are due for their Two Thirds/ in 3 to 4 years time are what's known as keeping their heads, down as some of my old mates put it! A lot of the old boys have lost interest, moral in some areas and aspects of the job is low: The money and prospects is OK its not great, they were hoping for a pay rise of dramatic odds when the tories got in, but it never happened. Thatcher only did it because she wanted to bust the miners apart and dreams of it happening again under Cammeroon, was just a distant fantasy on a horizon, living in a mirage. You will never get the dedicated bobby you had in days of old because our young do not think or act that way anymore, whether they are Policeman or not. If the forces recruiting services think any different then they are clearly misguided. The Education entrants test and the PT test have all been relinquished since H.O.E.Ts They do not even train them away from home anymore at Ashford or Eynsham Hall (That is a luxury hotel and retreat now for the rich who want to get away from crime): I am afraid its 9 to 5 monday to friday training at Chelmsford, to go hand in hand with a 9 to 5 Police Service, that is giving us all a pick and mix piece meal service costing over £1 Billion a year: The only time anyone will get justice these days is when the case is handed to them on a plate, or the evidence is staring them full proof in the face. The general public end up doing most of the donkey work for them, the Police tend to piece it all together its a numbers game today I am afraid and the dice roll is on the side of the criminals. We are now entering a very dangerous level of society whereby, the rights of those who wish to remain silent and in cognito have become stronger than the victims who suffer at their hands. Michal Hecht messed about with the judges rules and Moriartys law, changing it into the P.A.C.E act to counter anti terrorism issues, but this did not do much for rank and file bog standard police work in the streets. The whole thing is a mess and successive Chief's have done nothing more than plaster over cracks. The problem now is plaster is becoming very expensive and the system is running out of that substance too. PLEASE EITHER DO THE JOB OR GET OUT! A Very Private Gentleman
  • Score: 1

8:49am Sun 12 Jan 14

No! I am Spartacus says...

A Very Private Gentleman wrote:
No! I am Spartacus wrote:
Is the Gazette becoming a tabloid nonsense news receptacle? Not only is it purposely angling the story as a stab at Colchester police, but then also poisons the waters with a thinly veiled accusation against local police in this instance with a snippet from the commons public administration committee.
- Bernard Jenkin was the chairman of that committee, is the Gazette doing his bidding now?

Lets look at the facts, bare as they are in this report. A window was broken. Unless the burglar was found in the house, how could it result in a successful conviction? 'He had his elbow in the frame' is a pretty easy thing to defend against- yes, I know he was probably trying to break in, but it is about what can be proven, not what is likely and assumed.

Does anyone doubt there are some bad police officers? Probably not, we rely on the police to protect us all so it is newsworthy when this responsibility is failed. Each working environment has amoebas working in them however, and this level of sensationalist story writing with minimal regard for associated facts is certainly a contender in the area of journalism.
The problem we have here is that there is a taste and flavour or a return of Police work we had around 1995 to 2004:
I don't know who was the Chief Constable then but there was a dire mentality around here at that moment in time:
My nephew was attacked in a morbid way last year while he was in education he has been very ill for some months.
The Police did nothing about it stating there is not enough evidence to issue warrants.
The young chap also had 3/4 of his ear severed from his head while at school back in 2007 They did next to nothing to catch one of the two suspects in the frame for the assault.
If kavanagh & Alston continue in this way then it is time for them to leave and leave quickly please.
Complaint letters to kavanagh gleans no reply from their office they just pass the buck on to an Inspectorate officer, at local level you just about a get a call now.
Home visits are virtually out of the window by Professional Standards.
Both Jenkin, Patel and Sir Russell need to stamp on this roughshod, ramshackle service ASAP it is getting grossly out of hand.
The major problem is that the service is the victim of the ridiculous recruiting system that was going on in the mid 80's:

I will not go into it too much, but it made the carry on movies look tame:

Now most of those Clouseau's have retired thank G*D, the Job is left with bad blood trained by a similar bad attitude of mentality:
There are some good bods in the job, however they are in the minority, the ones that are due for their Two Thirds/ in 3 to 4 years time are what's known as keeping their heads, down as some of my old mates put it!
A lot of the old boys have lost interest, moral in some areas and aspects of the job is low:
The money and prospects is OK its not great, they were hoping for a pay rise of dramatic odds when the tories got in, but it never happened.
Thatcher only did it because she wanted to bust the miners apart and dreams of it happening again under Cammeroon, was just a distant fantasy on a horizon, living in a mirage.
You will never get the dedicated bobby you had in days of old because our young do not think or act that way anymore, whether they are Policeman or not.
If the forces recruiting services think any different then they are clearly misguided.
The Education entrants test and the PT test have all been relinquished since H.O.E.Ts They do not even train them away from home anymore at Ashford or Eynsham Hall (That is a luxury hotel and retreat now for the rich who want to get away from crime):
I am afraid its 9 to 5 monday to friday training at Chelmsford, to go hand in hand with a 9 to 5 Police Service, that is giving us all a pick and mix piece meal service costing over £1 Billion a year:
The only time anyone will get justice these days is when the case is handed to them on a plate, or the evidence is staring them full proof in the face.
The general public end up doing most of the donkey work for them, the Police tend to piece it all together its a numbers game today I am afraid and the dice roll is on the side of the criminals.
We are now entering a very dangerous level of society whereby, the rights of those who wish to remain silent and in cognito have become stronger than the victims who suffer at their hands.
Michal Hecht messed about with the judges rules and Moriartys law, changing it into the P.A.C.E act to counter anti terrorism issues, but this did not do much for rank and file bog standard police work in the streets.
The whole thing is a mess and successive Chief's have done nothing more than plaster over cracks.
The problem now is plaster is becoming very expensive and the system is running out of that substance too.
PLEASE EITHER DO THE JOB OR GET OUT!
I'd agree, if what you say wasn't so misguided. I could take on so many of your issues but will pick up on one main pertinent point which is related to this story:

The last few governments have, brick by brick, brought in swathes of targets by which to bash public services over the head with. Each target moves around like the wind, being changed every several months to suit political whims.

What happens is that the senior officers of the time are so desperate to reach these targets that they concentrate on the ways to achieve them, rather than doing the best job for the public (like I say, this could be applied to the NHS, HMRC, DWP and the rest of the alphabet soup).

Whist this occurs those DOING the work become disillusioned because most (not your sweeping nonsense statement of a minority) of them want to do the best job possible, and the moving 'targets' hinder this considerably.

This specific case looks like a perfect example, even if it isn't the case in this instance. There is no doubt a target for convictions. The likelihood of getting a conviction for burglary in this instance is much less than a conviction for criminal damage, therefore (to help hit targets) officers are probably instructed to get the most likely results.

There is argument that this is also a better use of public money AND that it is better to get a conviction rather than no conviction, but it is far too weighted in favour of getting quick results.

Whilst this goes on the current government bring in police commissioners so that there is an extra layer of bureaucracy between them and the public when issues with the police arise... so the government of the day are never directly responsible anymore. Neat trick, eh?

So, I'll agree that the public are not best served, but I think people should look higher than those on the street trying to offer a good service (yes, some are not great, but like I said before, that is the same in all areas of work. Most are decent and hard working). Look at the most senior officers bending over backwards to reach targets, however counter-productive they may be. Look at the newly installed police commissioners also having to justify their position, and look to the government who are apparently no longer in full control....

It is myopic and lazy to simply blame those doing the work on the ground.
[quote][p][bold]A Very Private Gentleman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]No! I am Spartacus[/bold] wrote: Is the Gazette becoming a tabloid nonsense news receptacle? Not only is it purposely angling the story as a stab at Colchester police, but then also poisons the waters with a thinly veiled accusation against local police in this instance with a snippet from the commons public administration committee. - Bernard Jenkin was the chairman of that committee, is the Gazette doing his bidding now? Lets look at the facts, bare as they are in this report. A window was broken. Unless the burglar was found in the house, how could it result in a successful conviction? 'He had his elbow in the frame' is a pretty easy thing to defend against- yes, I know he was probably trying to break in, but it is about what can be proven, not what is likely and assumed. Does anyone doubt there are some bad police officers? Probably not, we rely on the police to protect us all so it is newsworthy when this responsibility is failed. Each working environment has amoebas working in them however, and this level of sensationalist story writing with minimal regard for associated facts is certainly a contender in the area of journalism.[/p][/quote]The problem we have here is that there is a taste and flavour or a return of Police work we had around 1995 to 2004: I don't know who was the Chief Constable then but there was a dire mentality around here at that moment in time: My nephew was attacked in a morbid way last year while he was in education he has been very ill for some months. The Police did nothing about it stating there is not enough evidence to issue warrants. The young chap also had 3/4 of his ear severed from his head while at school back in 2007 They did next to nothing to catch one of the two suspects in the frame for the assault. If kavanagh & Alston continue in this way then it is time for them to leave and leave quickly please. Complaint letters to kavanagh gleans no reply from their office they just pass the buck on to an Inspectorate officer, at local level you just about a get a call now. Home visits are virtually out of the window by Professional Standards. Both Jenkin, Patel and Sir Russell need to stamp on this roughshod, ramshackle service ASAP it is getting grossly out of hand. The major problem is that the service is the victim of the ridiculous recruiting system that was going on in the mid 80's: I will not go into it too much, but it made the carry on movies look tame: Now most of those Clouseau's have retired thank G*D, the Job is left with bad blood trained by a similar bad attitude of mentality: There are some good bods in the job, however they are in the minority, the ones that are due for their Two Thirds/ in 3 to 4 years time are what's known as keeping their heads, down as some of my old mates put it! A lot of the old boys have lost interest, moral in some areas and aspects of the job is low: The money and prospects is OK its not great, they were hoping for a pay rise of dramatic odds when the tories got in, but it never happened. Thatcher only did it because she wanted to bust the miners apart and dreams of it happening again under Cammeroon, was just a distant fantasy on a horizon, living in a mirage. You will never get the dedicated bobby you had in days of old because our young do not think or act that way anymore, whether they are Policeman or not. If the forces recruiting services think any different then they are clearly misguided. The Education entrants test and the PT test have all been relinquished since H.O.E.Ts They do not even train them away from home anymore at Ashford or Eynsham Hall (That is a luxury hotel and retreat now for the rich who want to get away from crime): I am afraid its 9 to 5 monday to friday training at Chelmsford, to go hand in hand with a 9 to 5 Police Service, that is giving us all a pick and mix piece meal service costing over £1 Billion a year: The only time anyone will get justice these days is when the case is handed to them on a plate, or the evidence is staring them full proof in the face. The general public end up doing most of the donkey work for them, the Police tend to piece it all together its a numbers game today I am afraid and the dice roll is on the side of the criminals. We are now entering a very dangerous level of society whereby, the rights of those who wish to remain silent and in cognito have become stronger than the victims who suffer at their hands. Michal Hecht messed about with the judges rules and Moriartys law, changing it into the P.A.C.E act to counter anti terrorism issues, but this did not do much for rank and file bog standard police work in the streets. The whole thing is a mess and successive Chief's have done nothing more than plaster over cracks. The problem now is plaster is becoming very expensive and the system is running out of that substance too. PLEASE EITHER DO THE JOB OR GET OUT![/p][/quote]I'd agree, if what you say wasn't so misguided. I could take on so many of your issues but will pick up on one main pertinent point which is related to this story: The last few governments have, brick by brick, brought in swathes of targets by which to bash public services over the head with. Each target moves around like the wind, being changed every several months to suit political whims. What happens is that the senior officers of the time are so desperate to reach these targets that they concentrate on the ways to achieve them, rather than doing the best job for the public (like I say, this could be applied to the NHS, HMRC, DWP and the rest of the alphabet soup). Whist this occurs those DOING the work become disillusioned because most (not your sweeping nonsense statement of a minority) of them want to do the best job possible, and the moving 'targets' hinder this considerably. This specific case looks like a perfect example, even if it isn't the case in this instance. There is no doubt a target for convictions. The likelihood of getting a conviction for burglary in this instance is much less than a conviction for criminal damage, therefore (to help hit targets) officers are probably instructed to get the most likely results. There is argument that this is also a better use of public money AND that it is better to get a conviction rather than no conviction, but it is far too weighted in favour of getting quick results. Whilst this goes on the current government bring in police commissioners so that there is an extra layer of bureaucracy between them and the public when issues with the police arise... so the government of the day are never directly responsible anymore. Neat trick, eh? So, I'll agree that the public are not best served, but I think people should look higher than those on the street trying to offer a good service (yes, some are not great, but like I said before, that is the same in all areas of work. Most are decent and hard working). Look at the most senior officers bending over backwards to reach targets, however counter-productive they may be. Look at the newly installed police commissioners also having to justify their position, and look to the government who are apparently no longer in full control.... It is myopic and lazy to simply blame those doing the work on the ground. No! I am Spartacus
  • Score: -1

5:06am Mon 13 Jan 14

Campbell-Vencarto says...

The system is not working and the word to use is dystopian not myopic Mr Spartacus.
If you wish to use such sanguinary language please get the point correct.
The post was not lazy it was prolific and blunt to a point and not everyone's taste.
Pussyfooting around and being mendacious with wording is not the way the Police work so why should we?
Julie Campbell-Vencarto+
The system is not working and the word to use is dystopian not myopic Mr Spartacus. If you wish to use such sanguinary language please get the point correct. The post was not lazy it was prolific and blunt to a point and not everyone's taste. Pussyfooting around and being mendacious with wording is not the way the Police work so why should we? Julie Campbell-Vencarto+ Campbell-Vencarto
  • Score: 2

8:06am Mon 13 Jan 14

No! I am Spartacus says...

Campbell-Vencarto wrote:
The system is not working and the word to use is dystopian not myopic Mr Spartacus.
If you wish to use such sanguinary language please get the point correct.
The post was not lazy it was prolific and blunt to a point and not everyone's taste.
Pussyfooting around and being mendacious with wording is not the way the Police work so why should we?
Julie Campbell-Vencarto+
I'm big enough to accept criticism, or disagreement, Julie, but am not entirely sure why you would take an angle in trying to completely change what I am saying.

I meant to use 'myopic', because I have a big issue with some people's short-sighted point of view, and as such, lazily blaming the wrong people.

I agree the system isn't working, and I agree that some aspects are frightening- and, contrary to what your opinion it seems, I'd argue that some senior officers actually are pretty insincere- so if we (the general public) are to have any impact at all, it is important to know where the problem is at the start- essentially, it isn't the foot-soldiers we should be blaming but the politicians and their senior officer and police commissioner puppets.
[quote][p][bold]Campbell-Vencarto[/bold] wrote: The system is not working and the word to use is dystopian not myopic Mr Spartacus. If you wish to use such sanguinary language please get the point correct. The post was not lazy it was prolific and blunt to a point and not everyone's taste. Pussyfooting around and being mendacious with wording is not the way the Police work so why should we? Julie Campbell-Vencarto+[/p][/quote]I'm big enough to accept criticism, or disagreement, Julie, but am not entirely sure why you would take an angle in trying to completely change what I am saying. I meant to use 'myopic', because I have a big issue with some people's short-sighted point of view, and as such, lazily blaming the wrong people. I agree the system isn't working, and I agree that some aspects are frightening- and, contrary to what your opinion it seems, I'd argue that some senior officers actually are pretty insincere- so if we (the general public) are to have any impact at all, it is important to know where the problem is at the start- essentially, it isn't the foot-soldiers we should be blaming but the politicians and their senior officer and police commissioner puppets. No! I am Spartacus
  • Score: -1

7:41pm Wed 15 Jan 14

stevedawson says...

The bloke was caught and charged.what more could the police do.like the explanation given.Now we get into deep s***from weido's arguing about word meanings quite unrelated to the thread, open that cage again.
The bloke was caught and charged.what more could the police do.like the explanation given.Now we get into deep s***from weido's arguing about word meanings quite unrelated to the thread, open that cage again. stevedawson
  • Score: 0

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