Weekend snow hits Colchester as schools shut and travel disrupted (From Essex County Standard)

st helena school opens while the institute closes,both at the same location?We kept our kids off,the poice advise yet the school decides to open?

st helena school opens while the institute closes,both at the same location?We kept our kids off,the police advise against driving(see another story)yet the school decides to open?in my opinion not a good decision to open st helena.

Its nothing to do with the location, its the facilities and how the weather has affected them.

When I was a kid our schools never shut because of a bit of snow. Even in the big freeze of 1963 we went into school.
We had great fun at playtimes, wrapped up, playing snowballs and making slides across the playground.
Teachers and pupils alike would walk several miles there and back to ensure they were at school.
Now even in the nice weather most of the parents drive the kids , what would be, 5 min walk to school.

bev52 wrote:
When I was a kid our schools never shut because of a bit of snow. Even in the big freeze of 1963 we went into school.
We had great fun at playtimes, wrapped up, playing snowballs and making slides across the playground.
Teachers and pupils alike would walk several miles there and back to ensure they were at school.
Now even in the nice weather most of the parents drive the kids , what would be, 5 min walk to school.

I agree. I was a kid in the 70s, and we walked to school anyway. Don´t remember ever getting a day off due to snow, but do remember epic snowball fights and bombarding the teachers, who seemed to take it all in good spirits.

Too many parents drive their kids to school. It is good to walk there and back with your mates. Parents can be too paranoid, but so long as the kids are aware of the dangers of traffic, they should be encouraged to do it. Good for health, good to learn a bit of independence.

Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on.

co2 wrote:
st helena school opens while the institute closes,both at the same location?We kept our kids off,the police advise against driving(see another story)yet the school decides to open?in my opinion not a good decision to open st helena.

So the story about the police warning people not to drive in heavy snow yesterday was what make you take the decision to keep your child off school today despite there being no more snow falling or forecast. Come on let's be honest you had already made you mind up yesterday to keep them off and now you are trying to blame the school for opening.

Why are the schools closed?

I've just driven quite safely past 3 of them. Lazy teachers more like.

"Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on."

There has never been a successful case against someone slipping on the ice, its a health & safety myth

jim_bo wrote:
Why are the schools closed?

I've just driven quite safely past 3 of them. Lazy teachers more like.

"Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on."

There has never been a successful case against someone slipping on the ice, its a health & safety myth

Jimbo, I believe you, but I think schools (some of them, anyway) are still worried that it could happen. Even if it´s a myth and has never happened, I think that is the perception that exists. Same story with the thing about clearing the snow outside your house. The urban myth is that you could be sued if somebody slips, whereas if you leave it, you cannot be. It is a myth. People should try to clear the path if they are able.

Not sure if you can blame the teachers. The decision is taken by the head. I know quite a few teachers, and all of them would do all that they can to get into school.

jim_bo wrote:
Why are the schools closed?

I've just driven quite safely past 3 of them. Lazy teachers more like.

"Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on."

There has never been a successful case against someone slipping on the ice, its a health & safety myth

Why do people keep blaming 'lazy teachers'? The teachers do NOT make the decision to close the school, the Head (or manager nowadays) makes that decision.
Incidentally my twelve year old son walked to his OPEN school (St Helena) from the Berechurch area this morning. My daughter, who is a teacher, walked to her OPEN school also. Both in Colchester. Both working. Neither lazy!

And we were born with legs for what reason, i would rather my son not miss a day of school, cuz of some snow, theres always time for playing in the snow on the WALK home

I too have a number of teacher friends who jump at the chance of a snow day.

Good for her for going to work, sadly i fear your wife is in the minority.

In Germany it is the Law to clear the pavement directly in front of your property.

I happen to know that the heads of both Phillip Morant and St John's Green primary are very firm about "snow days" and expect all staff to turn up; which is why those schools haven't closed for snow in a long time. If staff leave earlier they will still arrive in time and better late than never.

It's also a good time to car share and avoid the work-shy excuses.

I'm told several schools who have a large intake from further afield have 'had to' shut because the coach companies refused to operate school buses on h@s grounds. So why couldn't the schools stay open for those closer at hand? Because in a lot of cases teachers also live further afield. We're a bit wimpy these days aren't we? I too remember going to school in the snow and having great fun - we don't let kids do it any more so they in turn teach their kids to be fearful of the weather rather than determined not to miss school.

I once walked to school for 5 miles in 3ft deep snow with 2 other friends. It took 3 hours, arrived midday, only to find that the school was closed. It was Saturday.
Best day ever!!!!

irememberwhen wrote:
I once walked to school for 5 miles in 3ft deep snow with 2 other friends. It took 3 hours, arrived midday, only to find that the school was closed. It was Saturday.
Best day ever!!!!

I´ve done the same before to get to the office. Couldn´t drive as too much snow, so walked 3 miles in. It seemed very quiet, but I put it down to the snow.

Was only when my wife called at 11.00 to ask where on earth I was that I realised it was Sunday morning. And now faced a similar walk to get home again. Feeling stupid hardly covers it!

jim_bo wrote:
Why are the schools closed?

I've just driven quite safely past 3 of them. Lazy teachers more like.

"Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on."

There has never been a successful case against someone slipping on the ice, its a health & safety myth

You seem a bit confused here, jimbo. Are we talking litigation culture (a fear of being sued might be the main factor here), or H&S? They are not actually the same thing. And I'm surprised at your confidence that nobody has ever successfully sued. At my previous job job within education, a staff member was in the process of a claim against the employer, after she slipped on black ice, due to the employer's failure to grit. While the case was ongoing when I left, the union expected to settle the case in her favour very soon.

Anyway, all those people who start on this ridiculous 'H&S gone mad' bandwagon (which other than the possible exception of the buses, I doubt is the issue here), are either little more than children, or have very bad memories. It wasn't so long ago when old wooden grandstands in football stadiums would never be cleaned, and would not even have a fire extinguisher. This video shows the results of a culture that failed to take H&S seriously. Thank god we're more enlightened today.

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=tLjquReTH
cU

6079 Smith W wrote:

jim_bo wrote:
Why are the schools closed?

I've just driven quite safely past 3 of them. Lazy teachers more like.

"Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on."

There has never been a successful case against someone slipping on the ice, its a health & safety myth

You seem a bit confused here, jimbo. Are we talking litigation culture (a fear of being sued might be the main factor here), or H&S? They are not actually the same thing. And I'm surprised at your confidence that nobody has ever successfully sued. At my previous job job within education, a staff member was in the process of a claim against the employer, after she slipped on black ice, due to the employer's failure to grit. While the case was ongoing when I left, the union expected to settle the case in her favour very soon.

Anyway, all those people who start on this ridiculous 'H&S gone mad' bandwagon (which other than the possible exception of the buses, I doubt is the issue here), are either little more than children, or have very bad memories. It wasn't so long ago when old wooden grandstands in football stadiums would never be cleaned, and would not even have a fire extinguisher. This video shows the results of a culture that failed to take H&S seriously. Thank god we're more enlightened today.

http://www.youtube.c

om/watch?v=tLjquReTH

cU

'At my previous job job within education, a staff member was in the process of a claim against the employer, after she slipped on black ice, due to the employer's failure to grit'...when I left (I should have added).

6079 Smith W wrote:

jim_bo wrote:
Why are the schools closed?

I've just driven quite safely past 3 of them. Lazy teachers more like.

"Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on."

There has never been a successful case against someone slipping on the ice, its a health & safety myth

You seem a bit confused here, jimbo. Are we talking litigation culture (a fear of being sued might be the main factor here), or H&S? They are not actually the same thing. And I'm surprised at your confidence that nobody has ever successfully sued. At my previous job job within education, a staff member was in the process of a claim against the employer, after she slipped on black ice, due to the employer's failure to grit. While the case was ongoing when I left, the union expected to settle the case in her favour very soon.

Anyway, all those people who start on this ridiculous 'H&S gone mad' bandwagon (which other than the possible exception of the buses, I doubt is the issue here), are either little more than children, or have very bad memories. It wasn't so long ago when old wooden grandstands in football stadiums would never be cleaned, and would not even have a fire extinguisher. This video shows the results of a culture that failed to take H&S seriously. Thank god we're more enlightened today.

http://www.youtube.c

om/watch?v=tLjquReTH

cU

Jim_Bo is correct; there is no test case or case law for the matter of slipping on a path due to snow or ice, the same as there is no case law of someone slipping on a wet pathway.

Having worked for some time very close to a large firm of solicitors I am fairly consident the case you mention wasn't successful. I also have to say that in my experience of Trade Union's dealing with such matters their effort has been weak at best.

*confident

Ritchie_Hicks wrote:
*confident

Unions don't tend to say they're 'confident' these days, without a very good reason. And Jimbo's clearly confused about a fear of being sued and H&S.

All the nostalgic ones should remember that 60 years ago not many families had cars, also most teachers lived within walking distance of their schools. That is why schools stayed open.
Also, the roads were much safer then for pedestrians and cyclists.

There no confusion between H&S and being sued.

The schools are shut because of a misunderstanding of H&S. The head has a duty of care for his staff and pupils. Snow and ice is an act of god it happens most years, get over it. The risk assessment asks you how you minimise the risk, it's still there you've just taken steps to reduce its occurrence. If we followed their example of H&S guidance we'd never do anything.
Fear of being sued is just a cover up for a nice day off. Look at the backlash after the BBC's coverage.

jim_bo wrote:
There no confusion between H&S and being sued. The schools are shut because of a misunderstanding of H&S. The head has a duty of care for his staff and pupils. Snow and ice is an act of god it happens most years, get over it. The risk assessment asks you how you minimise the risk, it's still there you've just taken steps to reduce its occurrence. If we followed their example of H&S guidance we'd never do anything. Fear of being sued is just a cover up for a nice day off. Look at the backlash after the BBC's coverage.

'There has never been a successful case against someone slipping on the ice, its a health & safety myth' (sic). Is this sentence my imagination?!

6079 Smith W wrote:

jim_bo wrote:
Why are the schools closed?

I've just driven quite safely past 3 of them. Lazy teachers more like.

"Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on."

There has never been a successful case against someone slipping on the ice, its a health & safety myth

You seem a bit confused here, jimbo. Are we talking litigation culture (a fear of being sued might be the main factor here), or H&S? They are not actually the same thing. And I'm surprised at your confidence that nobody has ever successfully sued. At my previous job job within education, a staff member was in the process of a claim against the employer, after she slipped on black ice, due to the employer's failure to grit. While the case was ongoing when I left, the union expected to settle the case in her favour very soon.

Anyway, all those people who start on this ridiculous 'H&S gone mad' bandwagon (which other than the possible exception of the buses, I doubt is the issue here), are either little more than children, or have very bad memories. It wasn't so long ago when old wooden grandstands in football stadiums would never be cleaned, and would not even have a fire extinguisher. This video shows the results of a culture that failed to take H&S seriously. Thank god we're more enlightened today.

http://www.youtube.c

om/watch?v=tLjquReTH

cU

Winston, just watched the link, and it was truly frightening how fast that spread. I remember that happening, but haven´t seen it in its entirety since. To go from a small fire like that in just minutes was just horrifying. That, together with Heysel and Hillsborough, did lead to changes in stadia. I guess nobody had really ever thought that a stand could go up that fast. We learn from these things, hopefully.

Sometimes, H+S is mocked, but you are right, it is also there for a reason. It is why we have guard rails, fireproof paint, fire doors, hi-vis, machine guards, and a myriad other things which reduce the chances of an accident or tragedy happening.

So not all H+S is a bad thing.

I just find it funny that some schools closes due to a SMALL AMOUNT of snow even funnier when it's NOT snowing. If some schools that are not on a main roads can open why can't those on main roads!!! When it comes to the summer (if we have it) the temperture is so hot ur sweating when the fan or the air con is up high are schools going to close due to HOT weather?? I know there is H&S regs that you can't work under/over a certain temp

B o r i s wrote:

romantic wrote:

bev52 wrote:
When I was a kid our schools never shut because of a bit of snow. Even in the big freeze of 1963 we went into school.
We had great fun at playtimes, wrapped up, playing snowballs and making slides across the playground.
Teachers and pupils alike would walk several miles there and back to ensure they were at school.
Now even in the nice weather most of the parents drive the kids , what would be, 5 min walk to school.

I agree. I was a kid in the 70s, and we walked to school anyway. Don´t remember ever getting a day off due to snow, but do remember epic snowball fights and bombarding the teachers, who seemed to take it all in good spirits.

Too many parents drive their kids to school. It is good to walk there and back with your mates. Parents can be too paranoid, but so long as the kids are aware of the dangers of traffic, they should be encouraged to do it. Good for health, good to learn a bit of independence.

Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on.

There was a lot less traffic and a lot less perverts then get real you donut

It´s rather rude to pretend you are Boris when you are clearly not. "Donut"? The UK spelling is "doughnut".

There are no more perverts now than when I was a kid back in the 70s. How do you conclude that there are? The tabloids may portray it as being that way, but it´s really not the case.

Traffic. Yes, I´ll grant you that, there is certainly a lot more traffic. Ironically, of course, a lot of that is people driving their kids to school. The evidence: look how much faster the traffic flows during school holidays.

Kids have to learn how to cross a busy road. Driving them as an alternative to a 10 or 15 minute walk is crazy. Walk with them the first few times, make sure they know the way and are capable of handling busy roads, and then leave them to it.

Kids remain kids forever if they´re never given any responsibility for themselves.

romantic wrote:

B o r i s wrote:

romantic wrote:

bev52 wrote:
When I was a kid our schools never shut because of a bit of snow. Even in the big freeze of 1963 we went into school.
We had great fun at playtimes, wrapped up, playing snowballs and making slides across the playground.
Teachers and pupils alike would walk several miles there and back to ensure they were at school.
Now even in the nice weather most of the parents drive the kids , what would be, 5 min walk to school.

I agree. I was a kid in the 70s, and we walked to school anyway. Don´t remember ever getting a day off due to snow, but do remember epic snowball fights and bombarding the teachers, who seemed to take it all in good spirits.

Too many parents drive their kids to school. It is good to walk there and back with your mates. Parents can be too paranoid, but so long as the kids are aware of the dangers of traffic, they should be encouraged to do it. Good for health, good to learn a bit of independence.

Trouble is, also, we are in a litigation culture, and schools are worried that they would be sued if a child slips over. Different times. If we fell over, we just laughed about it, got up and carried on.

There was a lot less traffic and a lot less perverts then get real you donut

It´s rather rude to pretend you are Boris when you are clearly not. "Donut"? The UK spelling is "doughnut".

There are no more perverts now than when I was a kid back in the 70s. How do you conclude that there are? The tabloids may portray it as being that way, but it´s really not the case.

Traffic. Yes, I´ll grant you that, there is certainly a lot more traffic. Ironically, of course, a lot of that is people driving their kids to school. The evidence: look how much faster the traffic flows during school holidays.

Kids have to learn how to cross a busy road. Driving them as an alternative to a 10 or 15 minute walk is crazy. Walk with them the first few times, make sure they know the way and are capable of handling busy roads, and then leave them to it.

Kids remain kids forever if they´re never given any responsibility for themselves.

Totally agree.

Have to agree about the "urban myth". See the Govt website on this. If you do something totally witless like pouring hot water on the drive to clear it, and the water then cools and freezes into an ice slide, you might find yourself in deep trouble. If you do the neighbourly and energetic thing and clear the area carefully before others make it into a glacier, then if more snow is trodden onto the area you are clearly not to blame for a minor spot of ice. However, if all the lazy clots who shelter under the urban myth were to get out there with a yard broom (don't know what that is? Get to your ironmonger if you still have one) and a shovel, the dry and clean areas would soon spread and join up.
.
We would also have less danger of flooding when the snow thaws, as so much would already have melted and flowed away.
.
The schools trouble comes in part from the bussing around to distant buildings. I did go to a school some distance away, but it was up to me to walk half a mile and then get the bus, for which incidentally my parents paid the fare. We all had wellies and raincoats. I never knew the school to close, or even to shut early because of the weather (and the air raids, and nearby bombs dropping, by the way).
.
Many employers used to stipulate that candidates for "responsible" jobs had to live within a defined distance from their place of work. Would have thought that could apply to teaching staff, although I appreciate it might cause problems for a married couple wanting to work in different areas.
.
As to the "right" to play in the snow, well we're going to drown in such "rights" and wonder why the world has gone down the drain! First things first, and there are weekends if you're lucky enough for the snow to remain, and, as someone else said, the walk home from school, to play outside.