Historic pub set to reopen (From Essex County Standard)

Walked past it today. It looks absolutely nowhere near finished and nobody working on site, even though it was not even four o'clock.

Good luck getting it ready on time!

I cannot see how the entire new-build will be ready in about two and a half weeks at this rate though.

I dread to think how much food and drink will be if he wants to get his £1m back. I also walked past it on Friday and the building looked like a shell. If he expects to fit it out in just over 2 weeks then he is dreaming. I'd loved to be proved wrong but in my experiences with pub fitters, the snagging list will be as long as your arm and will take weeks to get right.

Goodness, one million pounds - that's a lot of money. It looks rather empty for a building that's to be opened by the end of the month. The extension is hardly started. They say miracles happen around Christmas, I wait for the bright light to appear over the Stockwell. If it is open on the 30th I will be there bearing the gift of money to spend. At the moment I can't see it happening and the investment makes "no frankincense"

Oh Ho Ho Hayley mgmt... Such 'Myrrhth'

On a different tack though, one thing that has confused me is that the Stockwell website initially stated the opening to be the 14 November. It then changed to the 22 November without any comment or reference on the website before changing again to 30 November.

When reading through the site content though, it sounds as if it is already open, as they lovingly describe what it all looks like and what sort of atmosphere one could expect at Christmas-time.

I was looking for a Christmas party venue, hence my interest. I have however chosen a restaurant that I could (physically) visit and see, rather than risk missing a booking.

I will continue watching what 'develops' on site/website with interest though.

historyman22 wrote:
Oh Ho Ho Hayley mgmt... Such 'Myrrhth'

On a different tack though, one thing that has confused me is that the Stockwell website initially stated the opening to be the 14 November. It then changed to the 22 November without any comment or reference on the website before changing again to 30 November.

When reading through the site content though, it sounds as if it is already open, as they lovingly describe what it all looks like and what sort of atmosphere one could expect at Christmas-time.

I was looking for a Christmas party venue, hence my interest. I have however chosen a restaurant that I could (physically) visit and see, rather than risk missing a booking.

I will continue watching what 'develops' on site/website with interest though.

Should be a good venue for Xmas 2013, assuming it is still in business by then.
.
For this year, I hope you have not booked at "Number 9", or if you have, I hope you have not made any advance payment. If you have, it seems quite likely you will be in for a disappointment.

Boris wrote:

historyman22 wrote:
Oh Ho Ho Hayley mgmt... Such 'Myrrhth'

On a different tack though, one thing that has confused me is that the Stockwell website initially stated the opening to be the 14 November. It then changed to the 22 November without any comment or reference on the website before changing again to 30 November.

When reading through the site content though, it sounds as if it is already open, as they lovingly describe what it all looks like and what sort of atmosphere one could expect at Christmas-time.

I was looking for a Christmas party venue, hence my interest. I have however chosen a restaurant that I could (physically) visit and see, rather than risk missing a booking.

I will continue watching what 'develops' on site/website with interest though.

Should be a good venue for Xmas 2013, assuming it is still in business by then.
.
For this year, I hope you have not booked at "Number 9", or if you have, I hope you have not made any advance payment. If you have, it seems quite likely you will be in for a disappointment.

Whats up with number 9?

To be fair, many places are in a state of absolute chaos in the run-up to opening. It does tend to come together at the end. He probably wants to get up and running from day one, but he´s got to be sure that he can put out food which is good.

Word of mouth is important: go to a new place and it´s good, you´ll tell your friends. Same applies if it´s bad. Better to start off with a limited menu for a time while everything beds in, and then introduce new things as you go along. Do it right in the run-up to Xmas, and you can build up a nice clientele. Try to go in too fast and that impression lasts for years.

I hope it works out for him. I used to go to the Stockwell years ago, will be interesting to see what he has done with it.

Sort of off subject but can anyone tell me if the Huntsmans Tavern has closed?

jammin wrote:

Boris wrote:

historyman22 wrote:
Oh Ho Ho Hayley mgmt... Such 'Myrrhth'

On a different tack though, one thing that has confused me is that the Stockwell website initially stated the opening to be the 14 November. It then changed to the 22 November without any comment or reference on the website before changing again to 30 November.

When reading through the site content though, it sounds as if it is already open, as they lovingly describe what it all looks like and what sort of atmosphere one could expect at Christmas-time.

I was looking for a Christmas party venue, hence my interest. I have however chosen a restaurant that I could (physically) visit and see, rather than risk missing a booking.

I will continue watching what 'develops' on site/website with interest though.

Should be a good venue for Xmas 2013, assuming it is still in business by then.
.
For this year, I hope you have not booked at "Number 9", or if you have, I hope you have not made any advance payment. If you have, it seems quite likely you will be in for a disappointment.

Whats up with number 9?

Jammin, try reading the thread attached to the recent Gazette story regarding (the owner of number 9) a certain Mr Cole's 'outrage' at Bob Russell having raised his situation in Parliament.

Number 9 went bust earlier this year and left debts with many local businesses, but soon re-opened under a different holding company. Some will doubtless still eat there, but many others will be avoiding it on principle.

That is what is up with number 9.
I would certainly be wary of making an advance booking there, based on past performance. He may decide to close and 'write off' the debts again.

As for Boris's comment, I agree to an extent. I certainly cannot see it being open for business by Christmas 2012. At the current rate of progress, it might not even make Christmas 2013. From what I have seen, it has been an on-going project for over two years. I have been told that the owner is blaming neighbours for this. If he upsets the neighbours to the extent that they could slow work, he must have really mishandled things. I haven’t witnessed anyone chained to the gates so to speak. perhaps he blames others whilst the true blame lies elsewhere?

Anyway, as I said, give number 9 an ethical swerve, and go and have a look at the Stockwell site before you commit to a booking. There are after all, plenty of established restaurants, well run, with a past ‘pedigree’ that you can visit and see if it is what you need for a Christmas treat.

I have worked on this project the neighbours have held it up one commented that it would of been better burnt down !
Then there was the discovery of a roman well in the garden (under the new build) add to this its a listed building and you have to expect delays. Its going to look very nice inside and looks great from the outside, will it make a profit I doubt it sadly

Grabber wrote:
I have worked on this project the neighbours have held it up one commented that it would of been better burnt down !
Then there was the discovery of a roman well in the garden (under the new build) add to this its a listed building and you have to expect delays. Its going to look very nice inside and looks great from the outside, will it make a profit I doubt it sadly

Quite a confused and biased comment, lacking in cogency and (above all) facts.

Which neighbour said this? surely this (if true) would represent a real threat? Were the police informed/involved? Perhaps they should be contacted without any further delay. Now, there's a story!!

More likely this is simply 'random libel!'

If you worked on the project, for how long did you do so, and in what capacity?

I live in the area and have never heard such a sentiment from any of the neighbours.

We hear the excuses: It has been over two years, and still doesn't look anywhere near completion. Surely, this (neighbourly differences) have been considered prior to this (late) stage?. After all; the owner has stated an opening date now. Something doesn't seem right.

MMM. It 'must' be the neighbours.

Sounds like **** to me!

Welcome to the Stockwell. The new number 9?

Please respond. I simply cannot wait.

Historyman, I just went to the stockwell website and there is no mention of Christmas bookings.

Are you sure they are taking these?

I didn't think it seemed likely when I read your comments in the thread.

historyman22 wrote:

Grabber wrote:
I have worked on this project the neighbours have held it up one commented that it would of been better burnt down !
Then there was the discovery of a roman well in the garden (under the new build) add to this its a listed building and you have to expect delays. Its going to look very nice inside and looks great from the outside, will it make a profit I doubt it sadly

Quite a confused and biased comment, lacking in cogency and (above all) facts.

Which neighbour said this? surely this (if true) would represent a real threat? Were the police informed/involved? Perhaps they should be contacted without any further delay. Now, there's a story!!

More likely this is simply 'random libel!'

If you worked on the project, for how long did you do so, and in what capacity?

I live in the area and have never heard such a sentiment from any of the neighbours.

We hear the excuses: It has been over two years, and still doesn't look anywhere near completion. Surely, this (neighbourly differences) have been considered prior to this (late) stage?. After all; the owner has stated an opening date now. Something doesn't seem right.

MMM. It 'must' be the neighbours.

Sounds like **** to me!

Welcome to the Stockwell. The new number 9?

Please respond. I simply cannot wait.

It was the neighbour with the garden the backs on to the pub that made the comment to the project manager, I was a sub contractor working on the project at the time.
I doubt the police would of taken any action as it is only a comment and not a threat !
As for it being a new number 9 only time will tell but an important building has been saved from falling down and will continue to stand for many years to come that is a great outcome for the town and the Dutch quarter !
There is also the information gained from this project the Roman road the remains of the well the archaeologist had to be dragged out of the trench and sent home on a daily basis this must be of some interest to you History man ?

Well, that narrows it down to about six or seven properties then. I am sure that none of the occupants however, would wish a fire near their property. Like I said, I don't believe it, knowing three of the surrounding flat/householders pretty well.

I do of course support the restoration of the old building. As for the development behind, whilst your final 'sentence' lacks punctuation, and is difficult then to follow, the archaeology is of some interest to me. Why were you dragging the archaeologist about though?

A pity all these findings were all dug out and put under a concrete slab. Nobody save the site workers and privileged few will ever see it now. Just the modern pastiche of the reinvented building will be visible; a construction that will be mostly 21 Century ‘add-ons’ by the time it is finished.

A pity but the ‘history’ of development in Colchester has frequently been a case of the old giving way all too readily to the modern. If this building had been in York or Chester, it would have been the subject of an even greater scrutiny. Those places literally ooze history, simply because it has been properly protected from reckless development.

Do let’s have a little chat again soon though.

I just love deciphering your ramblings!

Grabber, you are obviously a fan...probably because you have made money out of the project. As a planner I can see the new extension as a very contentious issue in a conservation area. Not sure I would like to live next door to the size of the extension they are putting on, although I do like the old building now that it has been plastered. The listed building dept. must be rather lax as it goes against government guidelines to plaster the outside completely onto mesh, usually only allowed on small repair jobs. Sounds as if the project manager on this job is a real story teller, your mother should have told you not to believe everything you hear. What have they done with the roman road?

I am a resident who lives on East Stockwell Street and know many of the neighbours in the area, as I used to drink in the old Stockwell Arms. I think what you've heard is builder yard banter, as who on earth would want a burning building near to them. It sounds like a rather sick comment made by the project manager. I know everyone in the Dutch quarter loves the old building and I believe that, from the council website, at the planning stage nearly every neighbour that surrounds the Stockwell arms (and there are many of them) objected to the size of the new extension. It's out of character for the area and oozes pure greed and self-fulfilment from the owner. The size of it mirrors the ego of the person who bought it! PS a little hint - check your grammar and spelling before posting your comments, it leaves a lot to be desired!

What a load of fuss being made . Someone decides to renovate a historic building in the Dutch Quarter and you get the residents complaining and people running it down before ir even opens.
God there are some very sad people about leave the man alone anad stop complaining. Bet these residents wont boycot the place when it does open. They'll be the first to find fault though.......

I think that some commenters seem to have 'lost the thread,' so to speak.

Surely the story is about a pub/restaurant opening.

My comment was mostly that it doesn't seem likely, given the current state of development. It seems like some want to use this thread to pursue other objectives though.

The question again then: will it open on 30 November?

If not, then this is not the first time that the opening date (for this venue) has been announced, only to prove not to be the case soon after.

As for andypandy's comment; don't people have the right to complain? These threads (and indeed, threads in general across not just the gazette but the wider context of the internet) wouldn't make much of a read if they consisted purely of 'back-slapping' and 'mutual agreement'.

Perhaps those complaining have something to complain about? It is not for us to speak up on their behalf though; nor ours to deride them for doing so. Complaints, if unfounded have little effect. Surely a complaint is in essence incapable of effect. Its investigation on the other hand might have consequences, but usually it is usually only the result of an investigation - where someone is found to have wronged another - that results in some sort of tangible effect.

Let people complain I say! It is a free country after all. Wouldn't like to think it was turning into some kind of a dictatorship, where free thought and liberties were denied.

The Stockwell is opening on the evening of Thursday 6th December. The Colchester Town Watch will be there, on the look out for any miserable buggers like you lot.

Sdapeze you would do anything for a free pint, please don't swear it's not becoming and shows your lack of imagination.

Andypandy1952, can I ask, does your home adjoin the development? If it does, then I feel you may have a right to criticise those who are clearly upset by this. If you don't live nearby, I can't think why you're bothering to read a thread at all if you object to debate, let alone a debate about something you clearly don't care about!!!!

Sandgronun64, however, I couldn't agree with you more - this is supposed to be about the opening of the monstrosity and its effect on the residents of what is my home town. It seems to have turned into somewhat of a farce, yes; you did read that right - I did say farce, another word which rhymes with it I will save for the instigator of this whole business. The a*** who has more money than sense!!

When it FINALLY opens, be it for this Christmas or next I'm not sure I'll be visiting for the simple fact that there's no parking!! OK, so that's a lie - I won't go purely because I was born in this town and am deeply saddened that some bully from somewhere else sees fit to throw his dosh and weight around and tread on anyone who questions what he's up to.

Sounds like he's not the most popular character in town if these reports from residents' objections are anything to go by. Of course they have every right to complain.

Sdapeze wrote:
The Stockwell is opening on the evening of Thursday 6th December. The Colchester Town Watch will be there, on the look out for any miserable buggers like you lot.

Well hello sdapeze!

I'll certainly keep a watch out for your merry and voluntary (unregistered) bouncer service.

I warn you now though. Should you or any of your Pantaloon clad cronies attempt to throw me into this historical travesty that you are about to 'star' in, I will fight!

I will fight to defend my right to be to be allowed to drink elsewhere ... in a more ambient and (yes, let's face it), less controversial, pub.

Ridere Clara Voce!!

lets hope that it is a success otherwise the investors will miss out on their return.

Ilovecolchester wrote:
Andypandy1952, can I ask, does your home adjoin the development? If it does, then I feel you may have a right to criticise those who are clearly upset by this. If you don't live nearby, I can't think why you're bothering to read a thread at all if you object to debate, let alone a debate about something you clearly don't care about!!!! Sandgronun64, however, I couldn't agree with you more - this is supposed to be about the opening of the monstrosity and its effect on the residents of what is my home town. It seems to have turned into somewhat of a farce, yes; you did read that right - I did say farce, another word which rhymes with it I will save for the instigator of this whole business. The a*** who has more money than sense!! When it FINALLY opens, be it for this Christmas or next I'm not sure I'll be visiting for the simple fact that there's no parking!! OK, so that's a lie - I won't go purely because I was born in this town and am deeply saddened that some bully from somewhere else sees fit to throw his dosh and weight around and tread on anyone who questions what he's up to. Sounds like he's not the most popular character in town if these reports from residents' objections are anything to go by. Of course they have every right to complain.

Who the hell do you think you are saying l have no right to comment on a thread. I have as much right as you or ne of the others on here to comment.

I used to run a public house that had a license for music and backed on to several properties and also overlooked several. Not once did we have a complaint about noise or anything else for that matter.

If you read my comment correctly it said leave the poor guy alone let him make his own mistakes.

Also l have every right to comment l was born and bred in Colchester not far from the Dutch Quarter in fact so dont tell me what l do or cant do.

Good luck to the guy ignore the moaners.

Woah, I can't help it if you read it wrong!

What I actually said was that I can't think why you're bothering to read and comment on a thread, you ydon't appear to like the idea of debate.

All very well running a pub that backs on to properties, may be a different matter living in those properties. May be your neighbours remained mute in fear of your temper? Having a license for music is very different to using it.

Whatever. This train of comment has left it's original tracks. We're talking here about WHEN the pub/restaurant will open as there seems to be some DEBATE (not argument) as to when the work will be finished. By the way - who are you to tell us not to complain!!!

I feel sorry for the poor b*****s who live right next to the building site, it must be hell having to put up with noise day in and day out - or should I say year in year out as I gather on the grapevine it has been over a year and still no end in sight. The 6th December may have been quoted but going on track record, when has the opening date ever materialised?

Ilovecolchester wrote:
Woah, I can't help it if you read it wrong! What I actually said was that I can't think why you're bothering to read and comment on a thread, you ydon't appear to like the idea of debate. All very well running a pub that backs on to properties, may be a different matter living in those properties. May be your neighbours remained mute in fear of your temper? Having a license for music is very different to using it. Whatever. This train of comment has left it's original tracks. We're talking here about WHEN the pub/restaurant will open as there seems to be some DEBATE (not argument) as to when the work will be finished. By the way - who are you to tell us not to complain!!! I feel sorry for the poor b*****s who live right next to the building site, it must be hell having to put up with noise day in and day out - or should I say year in year out as I gather on the grapevine it has been over a year and still no end in sight. The 6th December may have been quoted but going on track record, when has the opening date ever materialised?

I didn't read it wrong and l have no reason to dislike a debate. As for my temper do you know me , no l dont think you do.

Also get your facts right l didn't say you couldn't complain but it just seems alot are.

As before wait and see what happens give the guy a chance.

Aye aye Cap'n!!!

I drove past the place today I can't see any way the new build will be finished by the 6th December perhaps its only the pub that will be open on that date.

Andy Pandy, sound like he's losing his "Looby Loo"!

Hayley Management I agree, Andy Pandy appears to need attendance at anger management classes. Which pub did you manage Mr Pandy?

News just in:

Plenty happening in this thread ...

F**k all happening on the development site!

Can this really be news?

Let's hear why the opening date keeps being put back - on an almost daily basis.

Anyone?

I suspect that this site is what is referred to (in the building trade) a 'hospital job'.

The build only proceeds at the rate that money becomes available to allow it to do so.

Perhaps cash flow is the reason?

Could explain things.

If you lot think this will ever be a pub again, then you must have been on the cooking sherry. It will be a quality restaurant, where the slack arsed, real ale loving, jeans wearers will not be welcome. I wonder what Brian Jerome makes of it all.

Sdapeze wrote:
If you lot think this will ever be a pub again, then you must have been on the cooking sherry. It will be a quality restaurant, where the slack arsed, real ale loving, jeans wearers will not be welcome. I wonder what Brian Jerome makes of it all.

Knowing Mr Jerome VERY well, he'd probably hate it.

To quote the inimitable Mr Jerome "... I love it when a plan come together (sic)"

Frankly, this plan does not really seem to be coming together!

Ridere Clara Voce!!

Surely the Stockwell has a History of fine dining.

I remember Mr Jerome's epicurean delights as if it were yesterday.

MMM! Crispy sandwiches!

I think however Mr sdapeze, that we always knew that it was due to become an overpriced eatery, for a while - until that is, the economic reality sets in and he needs to recoup his losses!

Sdapeze wrote:
If you lot think this will ever be a pub again, then you must have been on the cooking sherry. It will be a quality restaurant, where the slack arsed, real ale loving, jeans wearers will not be welcome. I wonder what Brian Jerome makes of it all.

Sdapeze, for one I don't drink "cooking sherry" and on another, I do not have a slack arse and am not known to wear jeans. Although as a planner I'm with you on the pedestrian only town centre but I really think you sound like a pompous twonk on this thread and a bit of a snob. Who is Brian Jerome?

I have no wish to comment on the previous discussions but to add perhaps a "voice of reason" to the chain. For Partyplanner - Brian Jerome was the landlord of the Stockwell from 1980-2007..

I am a former "regular" who lives a couple of hundred yards away, a real ale fanatic, have licensed trade experience and love traditional pubs. I always described the Stockwell as "a village pub in the middle of town" and valued its presence despite the foibles and occasional shortcomings of the landlords!

In my view, the Stockwell could never succeed as a pub in the current climate. Brian failed, as did the couple who took it over - in both cases they were well intentioned but lacked the financial muscle to override the greed of the pub company which owned the lease. A combination of this, the tax regime and the small size made it almost impossible to survive on "wet" sales, and also prohibited developing a viable food trade.

The original plan of the new owner was to redevelop the property to increase the floorspace and build kitchens, aiming towards the "gastro pub" principal Not really my cup of tea (although the proposed micro-brewery would be a bonus) but infinitely preferable to the alternative of converting to housing. Despite promises of no late night opening or loud music, there were numerous bjections from local residents and the Dutch Quarter Association. I believe these were mostly unfounded and driven by ignorance but made the owner rethink his plans, and he has now decided to drop the "pub" bit and operate purely as a restaurant.

The loss of the last pub in the Dutch Quarter is a crying shame, but it's his money and he can do what he wants with it. I personally still think it is too small ever to recoup his investment, but if his pockets are deep enough it may be a viable business and I wish him the best of luck. And I'm sure it will open when it's ready!

Hot off the press. The re-opening of the Stockwell has been deferred to Thursday 10th January. Thank you partyplanner for chiding me. I will try harder not to see like a pompous twonk - although when one is a pompous twonk, it is difficult to be otherwise.

partyplanner wrote:

Sdapeze wrote:
If you lot think this will ever be a pub again, then you must have been on the cooking sherry. It will be a quality restaurant, where the slack arsed, real ale loving, jeans wearers will not be welcome. I wonder what Brian Jerome makes of it all.

Sdapeze, for one I don't drink "cooking sherry" and on another, I do not have a slack arse and am not known to wear jeans. Although as a planner I'm with you on the pedestrian only town centre but I really think you sound like a pompous twonk on this thread and a bit of a snob. Who is Brian Jerome?

Brian Jerome was landlord of the Stockwell for donkey´s years. You never experienced the rather individual "BJ the DJ" nights?! It was a good place for a long time, but speaking as a real ale loving jeans wearer (I wouldn´t like to speculate on the slack-arsed bit), the quality of beer definitely slid downhill towards the end.

Diddle -De-Dee; when you say you are the voice of reason, am I to take it that you do not therefore think the rest of us to be reasonable?

When you talk about "...numerous objections from local residents and the Dutch Quarter Association ...(being)... mostly unfounded and driven by ignorance ...", does this not show a profound sense of supercillious disregard for the wishes of the local populace?

The Dutch Quarter Association, and numerous others were primarily concerned with the additional size of the extension, almost doubling the size of the building. True, concerns regarding noise etcetera were raised, but to pass off any and all legitimate concerns in this way hardly seems reasonable.

Interestingly, the proposals to renovate the old building (that were submitted prior to this), scarcely raised an eyebrow and were rightly applauded; even by those who later opposed the extension.

I too was a regular in the 'old Stockwell.'

I mourn its passing, but we will have to all live with the replacement.

Yes it is his money.

The whole of the surrounding area however is not his.

The Dutch Quarter is a community, and so a shared resource; shared (in your view) by a colony of ignorami, that have no right to an opinion in the matter, based upon their lack of understanding.

A pity you think this, as much of what you said otherwise made perfect sense. I am sure you are a perfectly reasonable person though, and did not really mean this slight to so many?

Hello Sandgronun64

It was never my intention to pass a slight on my fellow residents as "ignorami", not to indicate that others' views were unreasonable. And I accept your point about the size of the revised extension.

There were, in fact a surprisingly small number of formal objections to the Planning Committee. Those raised by residents in neighbouring properties were understandable and generally valid, particularly the concerns re noise, security, privacy and outdoor dining/drinking. Also the use of the former car park area, which could initial;y have been interpreted as an "on-street" drinking area. Some, but not all of these objections appear to have been satisfactorily addressed.

Unfortunately there is little precedent - during my 20 years patronage the pub was seldom very busy, and the garden an underused, inhospitable and occasionally inaccessible resource! We will all have to wait until the restaurant becomes established to see whether problems do arise.

My main point was the loss of the last real community facility in the Dutch Quarter. I still believe that comments made in the press, and even in "street conversations" which were fed back to the owners before the formal plans were submitted led to the focus on a pure eaterie rather than a facililty for people like me who value a quick pint and the social aspects provided by a local pub (even a gastro-pub).

The owner did make the point that his other family enterprise in Colchester, the Little Crown pub, has changed for the better since they took over, so hopefully management controls and a sense of social responsibility will minimise problems. Only time will tell.

Finally - yes I do have respect for my neighbours and their opinions, otherwise I would move! Apologies if my earlier contribution indicated otherwise.

OK point made and taken from both sides.

Lets all agree to be reasonable then.

But before I do this let me just say ...

Oh Brian, Where art thou?

What has passed is a truly unique time in the history of this town!