Osborne Street to close overnight for a week (From Essex County Standard)

romantic says...
12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

So glad I mostly cycle or walk around town, because I can see Queen Street backed up with buses, and the car park backed up with cars trying to get out.

But let´s see, maybe I´m wrong and the planners have managed to take into account how long it takes to load and unload passengers.

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Bert_Stimpson says...
12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Barton's Folly. Anyone else predicting town centre traffic chaos in the run-up to Christmas.

Oh well at least the wasters at firsts*ite will have a big piece of concrete to paint on for a while next to the VAF.

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Bert_Stimpson says...
12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Barton's Folly. Anyone else predicting town centre traffic chaos in the run-up to Christmas.

Oh well at least the wasters at firsts*ite will have a big piece of concrete to paint on for a while next to the VAF.

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Sdapeze says...
12:29pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Bring it on. This is a positive move for Colchester. Let's judge it after it is done and see how things work out. All we need then is a ban on cars in the town centre and a proper Park and Ride system.

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Boris says...
5:02pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Gazette, please stop calling this abortion a bus station. It is nothing of the sort. Lyn Barton's Folly is merely an agglomeration of bus stops.
Sdapeze so loves failure that he says "Bring it on" when it is clear that the project is going to fail. £2 million down the drain. How can anyone welcome such an outcome?

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Im_Like_HELLO says...
8:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

I believe it was naysayers such as yourselves who said the same about the VAF when that was built? Are you bus users, incidentally? Let us give this project a chance to prove itself before imposing judgement. Any facility like a new bus station or rail station tends to be minimalist these days - we wouldn't want great big empty hulks like from Victorian times would we?

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PROOFREADER says...
10:21am Fri 2 Nov 12

Apart from from an over sized shelter it is no different from the row of bus stopsi n St Johns Street where you can also stand undercover. There are also toilets close to the bus stops in St Johns Street.

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PROOFREADER says...
10:23am Fri 2 Nov 12

stops not stopsi.

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rhetoric says...
11:20am Fri 2 Nov 12

All Councillors and Planners should be made to use the local bus services for a period of 6 months in their first winter of office.
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They could then speak and make decisions with some authority, rather than pontificating on behalf of those whose needs they definitely do not understand.
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Non-bus users also have a point to make, but if they don't like the traffic jams why do not at least half of them take the bus instead? I know that many are in a location where this is difficult, but for the majority it is possible to leave the car at home.
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As for "through traffic", well, Colchester has a good, long-established system of roads bypassing the Town.
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ProofReader, you have a good point about undercover stops adjacent to toilets. There's nothing like waiting for an overdue bus in winter for making one have to cross the legs and grit the teeth!!

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romantic says...
11:35am Fri 2 Nov 12

Im_Like_HELLO wrote:
I believe it was naysayers such as yourselves who said the same about the VAF when that was built? Are you bus users, incidentally? Let us give this project a chance to prove itself before imposing judgement. Any facility like a new bus station or rail station tends to be minimalist these days - we wouldn't want great big empty hulks like from Victorian times would we?

Minimalist is OK so long as it functions well. Personally, my opinion is that this will create periods when the town is almost gridlocked. Why? OK, with the bus station gone, a lot of buses will be stopping at the top of Queen St, and I think a lot of people will want to get out there rather than the new bus station. It only takes 2 buses up there and any others behind will then be waiting to get in.

At the new "bus station", there will be a couple of extra stops more than now, BUT you also have to take into account that all the buses will get routed through there, including those that currently go straight down to St Botolphs roundabout.

That´s a lot of buses to get through there, I believe it is somewhere around 70 per hour at peak points, and it can take several minutes to drop and pick up passengers at busy times.

Mix that up with people trying to get in and out of the car park, and I think you will end up with buses queued up along Queen Street, and further back, at times.

Maybe I am wrong, I am quite prepared to be wrong. But I think it has been rushed into place by people who have not considered how long a bus really needs to be at the main town centre bus stops. They may well have modelled how it would flow, but based on a sunny day with half a dozen people jumping on with the right change. The reality can be 25 people with bags and baby-buggies, people without the right change, on a wet afternoon in January. So the model might show the bus in and out in a couple of minutes, but actually it can take a lot longer than that.

But let´s see how it goes, because the big day is less than 3 weeks away!

I don´t want it to fail, because it´s another 2 million of your and my money that is sunk into this, and I would hope to get something that works for that outlay.

[quote][p][bold]Im_Like_HELLO[/bold] wrote: I believe it was naysayers such as yourselves who said the same about the VAF when that was built? Are you bus users, incidentally? Let us give this project a chance to prove itself before imposing judgement. Any facility like a new bus station or rail station tends to be minimalist these days - we wouldn't want great big empty hulks like from Victorian times would we?[/p][/quote]Minimalist is OK so long as it functions well. Personally, my opinion is that this will create periods when the town is almost gridlocked. Why? OK, with the bus station gone, a lot of buses will be stopping at the top of Queen St, and I think a lot of people will want to get out there rather than the new bus station. It only takes 2 buses up there and any others behind will then be waiting to get in. At the new "bus station", there will be a couple of extra stops more than now, BUT you also have to take into account that all the buses will get routed through there, including those that currently go straight down to St Botolphs roundabout. That´s a lot of buses to get through there, I believe it is somewhere around 70 per hour at peak points, and it can take several minutes to drop and pick up passengers at busy times. Mix that up with people trying to get in and out of the car park, and I think you will end up with buses queued up along Queen Street, and further back, at times. Maybe I am wrong, I am quite prepared to be wrong. But I think it has been rushed into place by people who have not considered how long a bus really needs to be at the main town centre bus stops. They may well have modelled how it would flow, but based on a sunny day with half a dozen people jumping on with the right change. The reality can be 25 people with bags and baby-buggies, people without the right change, on a wet afternoon in January. So the model might show the bus in and out in a couple of minutes, but actually it can take a lot longer than that. But let´s see how it goes, because the big day is less than 3 weeks away! I don´t want it to fail, because it´s another 2 million of your and my money that is sunk into this, and I would hope to get something that works for that outlay. romantic

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TheCaptain says...
1:30pm Fri 2 Nov 12

"BUT you also have to take into account that all the buses will get routed through there, including those that currently go straight down to St Botolphs roundabout."

Why will this be? What is the need for any change for the 67 etc. Get on in High Street and go the normal way.

Is this your assumption or do you know?

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romantic says...
2:12pm Fri 2 Nov 12

TheCaptain wrote:
"BUT you also have to take into account that all the buses will get routed through there, including those that currently go straight down to St Botolphs roundabout."

Why will this be? What is the need for any change for the 67 etc. Get on in High Street and go the normal way.

Is this your assumption or do you know?

To be fair, it was an assumption. I just looked up a few timetables, and it seems that the 67, 64, 61 etc will stop at Queen Street and then not at the bus station. You´re right, I am wrong! Anyway, we´ll just have to see what happens.

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TheCaptain says...
2:39pm Fri 2 Nov 12

romantic wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:
"BUT you also have to take into account that all the buses will get routed through there, including those that currently go straight down to St Botolphs roundabout."

Why will this be? What is the need for any change for the 67 etc. Get on in High Street and go the normal way.

Is this your assumption or do you know?
To be fair, it was an assumption. I just looked up a few timetables, and it seems that the 67, 64, 61 etc will stop at Queen Street and then not at the bus station. You´re right, I am wrong! Anyway, we´ll just have to see what happens.

Who knows whose right and wrong until it happens.

I'm just hoping that my bus the 67 will ignore the new stops other than on the way into Colchester. Just will mean one less bus stop out of town.

If there were extra stopping space in Queen Street then things would be good.

I don't think that this will cause any major problems. But we will have to wait and see.

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rhetoric says...
3:34pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Having thought a lot more about this, and read the above comments, I can see that we need the return of the good old fashioned bus conductor!
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We would not then have the buses held up at stops for so long with people paying the driver and so on. There would also be the possibility of a conductor helping people get off with pushchairs, heavy shopping etc, although these days no doubt the Health and Safety rules would preclude this. However, it is the paying and discussions arising, the fact that many people seem to think "Oh, goodness! I actually have to pay" and rummage in pockets or bags for ages - that holds up the buses interminably. It is just as irritating for the other passengers to be sitting there waiting for these idiots who do not have the consideration to get the fare ready in their hand before they board the vehicle!
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Add to this the enquiries about timetables and so on, and one can lose the will to live, as no doubt happens to the drivers caught behind such a bus.

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Sdapeze says...
4:04pm Fri 2 Nov 12

What a lot of future tellers we have. Of course this won't fail. Those that are responsible for it will make sure it doesn't. The new facility needs to make sure that buses don't hang about. Get in. Get out! If they want to kill time, go some place else and do it and take your filthy belching fumes with you. But then we are dealing with the mentalities of the the naysayers who aren't the brightest of people.

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Grabber says...
8:32pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Perhaps the Council should invest in 50 seat double deck cycles as this is the only form of transport acceptable to you !

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Longinus says...
7:13am Sat 3 Nov 12

Sdapeze -with all due respect you have made it perfectly clear that you don't use the buses - that you don't like buses but did you actually read what Rhetoric said? He was spot on. I don't drive. I have to catch the bus to get to work and coming home, some nights it is utter chaos outside Wilkinsons with buses piled up waiting to move on because of hold ups getting people onto the buses in front. The street is too narrow so buses cannot pull out and it has traffic coming the other way. I have no idea what the new 'station' will add to the mix. I can tell you that I used to catch my bus from Gala as it is nearer my work place and it was never a very busy stop. More people get on up at Wilkinson's because, I suppose, it is more central. What would be better all round is for the bus companies to adopt the Ipswich model of a set fare within a certain mile radius ie. £1.00 single/£2.00 return with exact change into a slot with a refund to be collected by the traveller from the 'bus station'.

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hughie-s says...
11:42am Sat 3 Nov 12

romantic wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:
"BUT you also have to take into account that all the buses will get routed through there, including those that currently go straight down to St Botolphs roundabout."

Why will this be? What is the need for any change for the 67 etc. Get on in High Street and go the normal way.

Is this your assumption or do you know?
To be fair, it was an assumption. I just looked up a few timetables, and it seems that the 67, 64, 61 etc will stop at Queen Street and then not at the bus station. You´re right, I am wrong! Anyway, we´ll just have to see what happens.

Yes, they stop in Queen Street AND have stand time timetabled for driver change over so will there for three or four minutes.

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Sdapeze says...
5:03pm Sat 3 Nov 12

Wandered down there today to have a look and it looks like a bombsite at the moment. It will be interesting to see it transformed and to see how it works. It will certainly look a lot better than the old bus station.

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The old see dog says...
12:40am Mon 5 Nov 12

They told us that due to legal agreements that had been signed by ECC and CC and the school demanding their land back and the development of the site for the regeneration of that area the bus station HAD to shut this month. Now what are they doing ? holding a Christmas market there. What has happened to all the urgent commitments that required the closure of the bus station? These councillors and planners must live on the same planet as the politicians they dont live in the real world like the rest of us have to. Its a bit like "traffic free High Street" except buses, taxis, motor cycles, push bikes, disabled buggies etc. TRAFFIC FREE!!!!!!

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Ontheball says...
4:54pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Including two express coach services, I make it that 48 different bus routes, of varying frequencies, will need to use the stops in Osborne Street. Ludicrous.

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hughie-s says...
8:58pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Leaflet now available showing layout of stops.

http://www.colcheste
r.gov.uk/CHttpHandle
r.ashx?id=8348&p=0

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hughie-s says...
9:09pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Ontheball wrote:
Including two express coach services, I make it that 48 different bus routes, of varying frequencies, will need to use the stops in Osborne Street. Ludicrous.

Service 74 departs at 35 minutes past the hour, service 104 departs at 35 minutes past the hour, both use stand Bb.

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RetiredVal says...
11:33am Wed 7 Nov 12

I was in the High Street yesterday when everything came to a halt for while again. Caused by 1 bus at bus stop, 1 bus pulled in diagonally to try to get to stop, totally blocking road AGAIN. It is the buses that block the town centre roads not the cars. How can a 'bus station' not cause further terrible congestion and jams. Still it should put off visitors to the town and keep the people out.

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Bert_Stimpson says...
12:05pm Wed 7 Nov 12

There were 20+ buses parked up at the bus station last night. Where will they go when it's turned over to the 'arts elite' for their hippy festivals and open air art rubbish?

If Barton's Folly Bus Stop causes chaos will Ms. Barton do the decent thing and resign?

Also, on that council leaflet where is bus stop Jb halfway down Queen Street. Is there space for that? I don't remember there being a bus stop there.

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TheCaptain says...
1:30pm Wed 7 Nov 12

Bert_Stimpson wrote:
There were 20+ buses parked up at the bus station last night. Where will they go when it's turned over to the 'arts elite' for their hippy festivals and open air art rubbish?

If Barton's Folly Bus Stop causes chaos will Ms. Barton do the decent thing and resign?

Also, on that council leaflet where is bus stop Jb halfway down Queen Street. Is there space for that? I don't remember there being a bus stop there.

The buses can park at First's depot. There is no need for the taxpayer to provide free parking for buses not in service.
I thought that about stop JB as well. No there isn't one there now.

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The old see dog says...
11:01pm Wed 7 Nov 12

TheCaptain wrote:

Bert_Stimpson wrote:
There were 20+ buses parked up at the bus station last night. Where will they go when it's turned over to the 'arts elite' for their hippy festivals and open air art rubbish?

If Barton's Folly Bus Stop causes chaos will Ms. Barton do the decent thing and resign?

Also, on that council leaflet where is bus stop Jb halfway down Queen Street. Is there space for that? I don't remember there being a bus stop there.
The buses can park at First's depot. There is no need for the taxpayer to provide free parking for buses not in service.
I thought that about stop JB as well. No there isn't one there now.

I can remember when all the buses parked up for the night at their depot and along the road for a few hundred yards and what balls up that was blocking one half of the road, do we want that again only worse this time around because of the new/old bus stops ?

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hughie-s says...
7:41am Thu 8 Nov 12

Bus stop Jb is outside the old police station and is now marked out. Hb is a new stop between the Minories and the traffic lights but Ha appears to be the existing stop and has not, as the map suggests, been relocated back to where it was years ago outside Holly Trees.

When the bus station was built in the early 1960's part of the bus garage yard was used to form the entrance road off Queen Street and AFAIR in exchange the right was granted to park a number of buses in the bus station to replace the area lost.

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ObserverEU says...
10:09pm Thu 15 Nov 12

RetiredVal wrote:
I was in the High Street yesterday when everything came to a halt for while again. Caused by 1 bus at bus stop, 1 bus pulled in diagonally to try to get to stop, totally blocking road AGAIN. It is the buses that block the town centre roads not the cars. How can a 'bus station' not cause further terrible congestion and jams. Still it should put off visitors to the town and keep the people out.

This is an utter nonsense about buses causing congestions not cars. It just contradicts the scientific facts, which tell us that the former have much bigger capacity that the latter, i.e., they carry more people per a certain area on the road. The same area that can be used by several dozens of passengers on a bus is often occupied by 2 people (each in his own car). What causes the congestions is no limits/disincentives for cars entering the town centre and the degraded public transport system.

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Osborne Street to close overnight for a week (From Essex County Standard)

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Osborne Street to close overnight for a week

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